How about this option, 5)Casualty Set. I buy all the sets, so it doesn't matter where you put it. The most sense makes in the action pose set,if I had to choose. I don't understand the people who post that don't want to have casualty figures. Maybe one of them can explain why.
I like option #5 a set of just dead and wounded. If I had to make a choice of where to put them in a set already available my choice would be the command set or dump the useless to ME standing at attension guy and add a figure there but that would leave me to choose either a dead or wounded figure and I think in my opinion that we should have at LEAST one of each dead and wounded.
I would suggest a set of both dead and wounded figures from some of the sets already released, a mixed bag of various sets and see how they sell???
Maybe one set of just french mixed with the light infantry sets and the great coat figures also,then one of the German sets like Wuttenburg sets/Barvarian and maybe a set of Prussian/Russian.
I think from the posts I,ve seen so far there does seam to be a pretty good demand for the sets. I think with a little higher cost they could sell well enough on there own or even with a few other type poses not wanted in great numbers like extra action type poses. The more poses available the more believeable a scene or diorama can be made without the attack of the clones look to it. More figures also means more conversion possibilities.
I like to make action type dioramas, more of in close skirmish type street to street type fighting because its easier in 1/32 then trying to do a full scale believeable open field type battle without huge columns and its tough with the lack of action poses available. I try my best to convert the figures to more poses but there is only so much that can be done with limited working material. That,s why seperate arms from the figures would also be great and the final product would look much better when painted up without the figure blocking.
'Casualty poses have there place, but I would put them in to fill up a command set. As, like the command set, you would not need too many of them. Although a set of combined Napoleonic dead guys might sell , priced the same as a Command pack ,with one each for the various sets - 1 X French 1 X Bavarian 1 X Prussian 1 X Russian 1 X Austrian 1 X British Plus 6 X seperate muskets, 6 X Backpacks, 6 X Heads, which can be used on the live guys to make them different - example: Bare Head with moustache, Bare head clean shaven, head with bandage, Bare head shouting,etc. And whatever else can be fitted in to make the other sets more pesonal, example: gourd waterbottle, food to hang off pack, etc.'
As above or adapted as Brian023 suggested would work for me.
I would prefer no casualty figures in the MAC sets. The command set is the most expensive so having a $20 box that is 17% casualties really hurts the value proposition.
Look at the Russian set in the previous post. Which figure would be replaced by the dead guy? Mounted officer? Foot officer? Drummer? Hornist? Standard bearer? NCO?
I would not bump any of them for a casualty figure.
While were at it how about some caskets and grave diggers???:) And a Monty phyton type cart full of bodies! Bring out yer dead, Bring out yer dead. I,m not quit dead yet! You,ll be dead soon enough!
Would prefer 4. If you start with dead guys, then what about wounded ones, or like the Scottish figure of Timpo getting wounded in action. Wounded men often were carried away by other soldiers, etc.. Also dead comes in many ways on the battlefield...men with body part shot away...
So dead and wounded seems to me to be a totally separate item.
As a gamer, I have very little need for either dead or wounded figures. I have used them to indicate unit status, but usually these are made from broken figures that can no longer stand. In a wargame of usually 8-12 units per side, I may have about 6 or 8 casualty markers which I use to show a damaged unit. So for about every 10 packs of marching and 3 packs of command I may buy one pack of wounded/dead.
As I said earlier I am still in favour of a seperate box for the casualties. I agree with the earlier comment that the Timpo Highlander wounded figure is a great pose.
I must say that many dead figure that are lying face down with no headress could be used for many armies as the back of the uniform is very similar. With the use of one of the various back packs in the sets would look like whichever army you wish.
The Russian and Prussians are equaly very alike and could with spare heads be interchangable.
I would favour a different box for casualties as I would not like to sacrifice any of the other usable poses.
Here's the deal with the dead guy. There's currently 5 standard poses in the action set: standing shooting, loading, 2 advancing poses and a standing at attention. That's 5 poses for a 6 figure set. One pose would have to be duplicated, and right now, that's the standing at attention guy.
The dead guy would round out that set nicely, that is unless you guys have an idea for the extra pose.
Hatblogger, You previously said that the 5 standard poses were- Standing Firing,Standing Loading, 2 advancing and standing ready. So the standing at attention pose would be the 6th pose. No poses have to be duplicated, unless you want to save on sculpting costs:), the Prussian action set has 6 action poses, these would be my standard poses and no standing at attention guy. This latter pose has only appeared duplicated in the forthcoming Russian and 7YW Prussian sets. If you have to duplicate a pose then I would prefer an advancing pose which is more useful.
Ideally put the standing at attention guy in with the Marching set, for those that want to build formations, and leave the Action set with 6 poses for those of us that don't.
@Dave M, my mistake, standing at attention = standing at the ready pose, so there is only one standing pose.
The standing pose can go with the marching pose, that might be the best way to go.
The Prussian infantry action set was unusual in that those advancing poses were particular to the Prussians. There were two side molded advancing poses and two front molded ones, don't you think that there's too many advancing poses?
This brings up another point. Some people are always asking for more poses, but what other poses are there? IMHO, there is a limit to the useful poses available.
I can see in light infantry sets you can have kneeling poses (and we always almost have them in a firing - defending/loading pair) and skirmishing poses but there is a limit to what you can do in the standard line infantry poses.
Hatblogger, So what you are saying is that you only want one standing pose in a set. That's O.K. as long as it is the standing at the ready one, which is a normal combat posiion. The Prussians were better for me because they are all in the traditional idea of an action set. However I am coming at this from a different point of view being a toy soldier guy and not a wargamer, a set of plastic toy soldiers in 54mm size usually have a larger number of action ones than static ones. HaT has the luxury of being able to offer the largest number within the MAC sets, 18 poses, which is incredible really,so to have one third of them in actual action would be less percentage than a toy set ,but to have less than 6 in action probably makes it a wargame set. So a misunderstanding from my point of view as I am looking for toy soldiers really.
Historically accurate figure poses aren't really my thing, if you tell me that the Prussians were more agressive in their attacks then I'll believe you ,however for me and many other plastic toy soldier collectors the 6 standard poses would be - Standing Firing,Kneeling Firing, standing Loading, Standing at Ready, advancing and charging. Then you add the other poses onto these. I don't think you can have too many active poses in a set but I do think you can have too many static poses an example of a badly configured set is the ACCURATE Union Infantry. 10 poses - Officer just standing, Flagman with flag wrapped round him, standing at attention, just standing, wounded using rifle as crutch, standing loading, standing cocking rifle,Standing firing, kneeling firing(in greatcoat),running. So 50% not doing a lot:)
I like the Prussians molded front on as they both work as poses and give some leaway for conversions, as you can see demonstrated by the conversions from FISH. He won't be able to do such good poses from the Russians and 7YW Prussian sets, I would think:) I would think that a side molded running pose would be practical and still look realistic.
We do not really need dead guys, we can do without them, they are obviously just plastic garbage inside a useful set. Please no dead guys, or wounded ones - they are quite the same.
I use my 1/32 plastic and metals for wargames, and diorama ultimate playset fun. So, I like the idea of some casualties for diorama. But I would not ruin a 6 figure set with a casualty figure.Buying as many as 6-10 of the same set, I am going to get x 3 of the same unfortunate dead guy per box? Sorry, Not a good idea. A casualty set of 6 might not sell near enough to be worth the molding and production cost.I'd buy, one.Not 6 -10. We might still want some casualty figs, but other than metal castings I cant think of a way to please everyone and keep costs reasonable.
BRING OUT THE DEAD!!! Toy soldiers depict war, in war folks get hurt and killed. To ignore that fact in the process ignores a basic element of what our hobby is about. What!? Are all our guys lousy shots that no one gets hurt or killed?
Blackcat, I understand where you are coming from with your comments but surely you buy at least one command set. The economics for doing a set of Wounded/dead figures is the same as producing a Command set. They are just offered at a higher price.
I agree a Dead guy in the action set doesn't work since we could have an action pose instead.
I was hoping you were going to do your excellent French metal poses in plastic, any chance that will happen sometime?
Wayne W - Dead and wounded guys. Your right this was always part of the traditional plastic figure sets produced in the UK and Europe, I think even Marx made some in the USA. I suppose 'No Dead' is one of these 'PC' things nowadays:)
should have a wounded/dead sets for all the napoleonic sets i would buy them and perhaps a universal field hospital meaning its one set but can be used for either of the wounded/dead sets
Hi I convert your figures to ACW types, A set of dead/wounded, could be very effective, across ALL war time-zones!!! I,d go for them, without a doubt. regards A Belshaw.
33 comments:
4 - no dead guy.
I'd see him as displacing something more worthwhile regardless of the set he went in. And for bulk purchases I dont see him as a plus.
Thanks
Neil A
How about this option, 5)Casualty Set. I buy all the sets, so it doesn't matter where you put it. The most sense makes in the action pose set,if I had to choose. I don't understand the people who post that don't want to have casualty figures. Maybe one of them can explain why.
yes dead or wounded soldier or a choice when a special series with several nations of the dead and injured I think he would be buyers.
Prefer no dead poses but a set dedicated to casualties would be an acceptable idea.
Hi H
Like the idea of a general set of mixed nationalities of dead and wounded seperate to the main action/marching/command boxes.
Regars
Dave
9th
yeah I like a mixed nations casualty set - include the british!
I like option #5 a set of just dead and wounded.
If I had to make a choice of where to put them in a set already available my choice would be the command set or dump the useless to ME standing at attension guy and add a figure there but that would leave me to choose either a dead or wounded figure and I think in my opinion that we should have at LEAST one of each dead and wounded.
I would suggest a set of both dead and wounded figures from some of the sets already released, a mixed bag of various sets and see how they sell???
Maybe one set of just french mixed with the light infantry sets and the great coat figures also,then one of the German sets like Wuttenburg sets/Barvarian and maybe a set of Prussian/Russian.
I think from the posts I,ve seen so far there does seam to be a pretty good demand for the sets. I think with a little higher cost they could sell well enough on there own or even with a few other type poses not wanted in great numbers like extra action type poses. The more poses available the more believeable a scene or diorama can be made without the attack of the clones look to it. More figures also means more conversion possibilities.
I like to make action type dioramas, more of in close skirmish type street to street type fighting because its easier in 1/32 then trying to do a full scale believeable open field type battle without huge columns and its tough with the lack of action poses available. I try my best to convert the figures to more poses but there is only so much that can be done with limited working material. That,s why seperate arms from the figures would also be great and the final product would look much better when painted up without the figure blocking.
FISH! <"))))><
Brian 023
I would prefer a seperate dead and wounded box, perhaps 1 wounded and 1 dead from three different armies 6 to a spru 18 total.
One box Prussian, Russian and Austrian another with French and some of the German States and so on.
Any thoughts?
Brian 023
From a previous post on another thread.
'Casualty poses have there place, but I would put them in to fill up a command set. As, like the command set, you would not need too many of them. Although a set of combined Napoleonic dead guys might sell , priced the same as a Command pack ,with one each for the various sets -
1 X French
1 X Bavarian
1 X Prussian
1 X Russian
1 X Austrian
1 X British
Plus 6 X seperate muskets, 6 X Backpacks, 6 X Heads, which can be used on the live guys to make them different - example: Bare Head with moustache, Bare head clean shaven, head with bandage, Bare head shouting,etc. And whatever else can be fitted in to make the other sets more pesonal, example: gourd waterbottle, food to hang off pack, etc.'
As above or adapted as Brian023 suggested would work for me.
Dave M
I would prefer no casualty figures in the MAC sets. The command set is the most expensive so having a $20 box that is 17% casualties really hurts the value proposition.
Look at the Russian set in the previous post. Which figure would be replaced by the dead guy?
Mounted officer?
Foot officer?
Drummer?
Hornist?
Standard bearer?
NCO?
I would not bump any of them for a casualty figure.
Rahway - good logic
Alex D
4- not in MAC
Scott M
While were at it how about some caskets and grave diggers???:) And a Monty phyton type cart full of bodies! Bring out yer dead, Bring out yer dead.
I,m not quit dead yet!
You,ll be dead soon enough!
FISH!<"))))><
Would prefer 4.
If you start with dead guys, then what about wounded ones, or like the Scottish figure of Timpo getting wounded in action. Wounded men often were carried away by other soldiers, etc..
Also dead comes in many ways on the battlefield...men with body part shot away...
So dead and wounded seems to me to be a totally separate item.
As a gamer, I have very little need for either dead or wounded figures. I have used them to indicate unit status, but usually these are made from broken figures that can no longer stand. In a wargame of usually 8-12 units per side, I may have about 6 or 8 casualty markers which I use to show a damaged unit. So for about every 10 packs of marching and 3 packs of command I may buy one pack of wounded/dead.
Adrian
As I said earlier I am still in favour of a seperate box for the casualties. I agree with the earlier comment that the Timpo Highlander wounded figure is a great pose.
I must say that many dead figure that are lying face down with no headress could be used for many armies as the back of the uniform is very similar. With the use of one of the various back packs in the sets would look like whichever army you wish.
The Russian and Prussians are equaly very alike and could with spare heads be interchangable.
I would favour a different box for casualties as I would not like to sacrifice any of the other usable poses.
Brian 023
Here's the deal with the dead guy. There's currently 5 standard poses in the action set: standing shooting, loading, 2 advancing poses and a standing at attention. That's 5 poses for a 6 figure set. One pose would have to be duplicated, and right now, that's the standing at attention guy.
The dead guy would round out that set nicely, that is unless you guys have an idea for the extra pose.
Hatblogger,
You previously said that the 5 standard poses were-
Standing Firing,Standing Loading, 2 advancing and standing ready.
So the standing at attention pose would be the 6th pose.
No poses have to be duplicated, unless you want to save on sculpting costs:), the Prussian action set has 6 action poses, these would be my standard poses and no standing at attention guy.
This latter pose has only appeared duplicated in the forthcoming Russian and 7YW Prussian sets. If you have to duplicate a pose then I would prefer an advancing pose which is more useful.
Ideally put the standing at attention guy in with the Marching set, for those that want to build formations, and leave the Action set with 6 poses for those of us that don't.
Dave M
@Dave M, my mistake, standing at attention = standing at the ready pose, so there is only one standing pose.
The standing pose can go with the marching pose, that might be the best way to go.
The Prussian infantry action set was unusual in that those advancing poses were particular to the Prussians. There were two side molded advancing poses and two front molded ones, don't you think that there's too many advancing poses?
More later.
This brings up another point. Some people are always asking for more poses, but what other poses are there? IMHO, there is a limit to the useful poses available.
I can see in light infantry sets you can have kneeling poses (and we always almost have them in a firing - defending/loading pair) and skirmishing poses but there is a limit to what you can do in the standard line infantry poses.
Hatblogger,
So what you are saying is that you only want one standing pose in a set. That's O.K. as long as it is the standing at the ready one, which is a normal combat posiion.
The Prussians were better for me because they are all in the traditional idea of an action set. However I am coming at this from a different point of view being a toy soldier guy and not a wargamer, a set of plastic toy soldiers in 54mm size usually have a larger number of action ones than static ones.
HaT has the luxury of being able to offer the largest number within the MAC sets, 18 poses, which is incredible really,so to have one third of them in actual action would be less percentage than a toy set ,but to have less than 6 in action probably makes it a wargame set. So a misunderstanding from my point of view as I am looking for toy soldiers really.
Historically accurate figure poses aren't really my thing, if you tell me that the Prussians were more agressive in their attacks then I'll believe you ,however for me and many other plastic toy soldier collectors the 6 standard poses would be -
Standing Firing,Kneeling Firing, standing Loading, Standing at Ready, advancing and charging.
Then you add the other poses onto these.
I don't think you can have too many active poses in a set but I do think you can have too many static poses an example of a badly configured set is the ACCURATE Union Infantry. 10 poses - Officer just standing, Flagman with flag wrapped round him, standing at attention, just standing, wounded using rifle as crutch, standing loading, standing cocking rifle,Standing firing, kneeling firing(in greatcoat),running. So 50% not doing a lot:)
I like the Prussians molded front on as they both work as poses and give some leaway for conversions, as you can see demonstrated by the conversions from FISH. He won't be able to do such good poses from the Russians and 7YW Prussian sets, I would think:)
I would think that a side molded running pose would be practical and still look realistic.
Dave M
Standing Firing,Kneeling Firing, standing Loading, Standing at Ready, advancing and charging.I agree
And no you cannot have too many advancing poses.
...and guys getting killed doing the same. And Pommeranian Piccolo Players...
The Prussian with his musket carried in front of him would be a good sixth pose. The separate arm gives him an open and more three-dimensional look.
I vote for mixed set of various wounded/dead nationalities.
Pedja
We do not really need dead guys, we can do without them, they are obviously just plastic garbage inside a useful set. Please no dead guys, or wounded ones - they are quite the same.
I use my 1/32 plastic and metals for wargames, and diorama ultimate playset fun. So, I like the idea of some casualties for diorama.
But I would not ruin a 6 figure set with a casualty figure.Buying as many as 6-10 of the same set, I am going to get x 3 of the same unfortunate dead guy per box? Sorry, Not a good idea.
A casualty set of 6 might not sell near enough to be worth the molding and production cost.I'd buy, one.Not 6 -10.
We might still want some casualty figs, but other than metal castings I cant think of a way to please everyone and keep costs reasonable.
My 2 bits.
Harold Soctt
BRING OUT THE DEAD!!! Toy soldiers depict war, in war folks get hurt and killed. To ignore that fact in the process ignores a basic element of what our hobby is about. What!? Are all our guys lousy shots that no one gets hurt or killed?
Blackcat,
I understand where you are coming from with your comments but surely you buy at least one command set.
The economics for doing a set of Wounded/dead figures is the same as producing a Command set. They are just offered at a higher price.
I agree a Dead guy in the action set doesn't work since we could have an action pose instead.
I was hoping you were going to do your excellent French metal poses in plastic, any chance that will happen sometime?
Wayne W - Dead and wounded guys. Your right this was always part of the traditional plastic figure sets produced in the UK and Europe, I think even Marx made some in the USA. I suppose 'No Dead' is one of these 'PC' things nowadays:)
Dave M
Generally mixed in. And not a lot of dead guys. And nothing dramatic. Just sort of laying around. Sort of like the early Airfix causalities.
Dead and wounded infantry... but why not think about dead/wounded cavalry, men AND horses, idem for artillery... All of that in a separate box.
should have a wounded/dead sets for all the napoleonic sets i would buy them and perhaps a universal field hospital meaning its one set but can be used for either of the wounded/dead sets
Hi
I convert your figures to ACW types, A set of dead/wounded, could be very effective, across ALL war time-zones!!! I,d go for them, without a doubt.
regards A Belshaw.
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