Hi Hatblogger, the most universal calibre which featured prominently in all Napoleonic Armies was the 6-pdr. As Italeri has already saturated the market with French foot and horse artillery which featured the larger 12-pdr, and AIP has French and British, and ACTA has the familiar British 9-pdr, producing something new would be desirable for the uncatered for Prussian, Bavarian, Russian, and Austrian market. A 6-pdr like the Prussian M1768 (re: Stephen Summerfield), would fit into any continental field army of the Napoleonic period, and could pass for the Seven Years War too! 6-pdrs were by far the most common size employed by everybody.
May I send a welcome to Young Stan. He's a fellow Kiwi that lives in that quake-ravaged city Christchurch, which has been having a very rough patch in the last 12 months. He's certainly not new to 1/32 scale. Kia kaha Young Stan!
Hi great idea - 1/32nd Napoleonic artillery is limited - the only decent sets ACTA British Field artillery and AIP French Old Guard The rest is mediocre. Now if hat made some artillery in 1/32nd scale then they would be first class of course. 9th
I have been gathering the figs for both sides, 1/32 DBA punic wars for some time. With the Cart Vets as principe, I'm just about there :) I have Italeri for early crusades, BMC for AWI, and CTA for ECW.
hello I hope to see the artillery quickly available in several national figures for the box and box to the guns seems to be a good solution can add extra hands over heads to ANSI conversions and increase the number of poses cordially john
Unfortunately it is not at all a good idea. Artillery is much more complicated than infantry and cavalry. A generic cannon that will do it is not right, as for example Russian horse or foot artillery used 3 models (6pdr, 12pfr and unicorns), and the guns have nothing to do with the one pictured above. A box should contain 2 different sprues of figures (for example French a and b class gunners) and at least 2 different guns. Economy and artillery just do not go together.
If I have this right there would be 3 sprues of the same 4 figures or the same 3 cannons per box. Then you would make different sets of different figures and different cannons for other boxes. How about making all the sprues at once and putting 3 different sprues in 1 box. There would just be a box with 3 different cannons and another box with 3 more different cannons and the same thing for crews. One box of figures could have a crew sprue of french one sprue of austrian and a sprue of russians. The next box could be British foot and horse and spanish. The important thing is to put out something. Start the line of 1/32 artillary now and expand on it later. You can't have your first set out be what everyone wants immediately. If what you put out first dosen't complete my collection, then I will wait untill the next release.
Why not just keep things simple 5 man crew plus a gun. It seems to work for AIP...do a russian gun 1st which have never been done in plastic. Then go on from there how hard is that! Rob C,
Agree with Rob, there are too many permutations to keep everyone happy! Start simply with what you initially suggested - two calibres of gun (one with crew sprue), and differing nationalities of four crew with extra heads. Prussian, Russian, and Austrians could be a priority, as they haven't been been done before in plastic, and will be best sellers.
Has the issue of Austrian helmets versus shakos beeen finalised? I'll buy whatever you decide :)
Rob, Hät's 54mm production line is 3 same sprues in a box.
figures + gun would give extra costs and much more boxes with the same number of sprues to be made.
My idea was to make it possible for Hät to think about artillery. Scot : I think it is better to have a generic artillery then none. As said, a licorne barrel could for instance be added to the Russian artillery figures.
So the question is would you support the idea or prefer nothing.
Dirk I never said specific or none. What I said was "The important thing is to put something out" and later expand on the line. I have no problem with a generic gun as that is what we are mostly using now.
But if they want to do country specific guns and crews then put out one that is accurate first and follow up with an opponents gun and crew quickly.
As far as 3 same sprues in a box is the way Hat does things 1) Hat has never done artillary in 1/32 before. 2) why ask us about what we think if they aren't open to suggestions?
I think i would pass on any generic guns...A Russian gun is just not the same as a french gun. I know the infantry has 3x sprues but is that set in stone? so hat could do 2 sprues one for the gun and one for the crews.I dont remember there punic war Elephant and crew being on 3 sprues Rob C
You can count on most of us supporting your idea :) Three of the same sprues per box - generic cannons in one, single nationality of three sprues in the other with an alternative cannon on sprue. I love it! Go for it and forget any dissent. Everyone needs continental Napoleonic cannons, particularly Prussian and Austrian. Put something into production, and we'll buy it. I'll, like many, will buy multiples :) I just admire the quality of your figures!!
Stephen im not sure why you used the the word desent? I have supported hats 1/32 products for many years Naps/ancients. I will let the subject go at that! Rob C,
Being an Historian and having collected, painted, converted and played with toys soldiers in excess of thirty years, I hope not to fall into the the trap of mediocrity and "just to get by" that I see being bashed back and forth here. I am not here to debate, argue or fuss & fight - I am here to post a carefully contemplated criticism, praise and suggestion(s)..
Based on the above I, for one, would prefer accurate, nation-specific guns and gunners. If you are happy with "generic" then go buy the generic guns from CTS and be done with it.
If I may speak even more directly: HAT has wasted precious time sculpting Wurttemburgers of various sorts as well as other minor nations that have comparatively limited market appeal and use (Wurt. Grenadiers!?). When, in fact, they could have given us French Line and Command as beautiful and in demand as their Legere! (This, so as not to leave people scrambling and wasting time and money on the likes of AIP with so many useless poses and bad under-cuts that render miniatures near useless and really offensive.). And for that matter French Guard Chasseur a Pied and Grenadier A Pied, or at least Middle Guard - none of which are anywhere readily available on the market but have great appeal.
Italeri has the most beautiful, detailed and animated plastic miniatures on the market! Though with a limited selection and mostly pre-1809/10. We are left with HAT – a company with which I am very glad to be “left with”! Italeri aside, HAT produces some of the most usefully-posed, accurate and best-looking figures on the market today! (Yes, even their lesser German states are exceptional!) :)
Back to the artillery; give us proper, correct, and accurate Russian artillery and gunners (this will compliment their fledgling Russian range); proper Austrians in their unique uniforms and bicorne/cocked hats with their unique guns! Give us good looking French figures with accurate artillery pieces! (And Prussians of course!) Any of these would do well Especially the AUSTRIAN set - One reason would be that the French pressed Austrian artillery into service due to its quality and construction.
To summarize: Boxes with 18 Gunners - very, VERY good idea! Separate boxes with 3 gun sprues each which contain a howitzer/licorne barrel and a 6lb barrel (For the heavier howitzers and 12lb barrel you'd want to have the larger carriages), Brits would have 9lbs in place of 12's, of course. So yes, a “heavy” and a “light” box of guns. By organizing thusly, you would have a broader market appeal and provide your customers a good, versatile, accurate, and useful product.
(I hate this idea BUT, to keep HAT from passing-out with the dizzying prospects of haing to have TWO To skirt the multi-size carriages in each nationality, you could produce the carriages in-between sizes for the 6's and 12's making them a bit small for 12's and a bit big for 6's! But from 3 feet away and aging eyesight...)
Finally one thing I would LOVE to see is a BOX of HEADS for conversion. They could be all one nation with 12-18 of each basic headgear type OR a mixed nationality box with, say, infantry in one and cavalry in another!
NB: Since many of you are wargamers, the above artillery packaging would/should appeal to you especially since many rules sets call for the number of guns to be represented by a gun model and a number of crewmen representing the actual gun number, For example: a Russian positional battery (aka Foot artillery) of 12 guns would have 3 gun models and 12 crewmen. Whereas an Austrian 12lb battery would have 1 or 2 gun models and 6 crewmen and a French foot battery would have 1 or 2 gun models and 8 crewmen, et cetera.
Thanks for reading and considering the above suggestions (including the heads!).
Bravo Sah! I completeley agree with your comments. I like the head idea , maybe they could be included with some camp followers or higher command figures. cheers Martin
hey - whats wrong with Wurttemberg Grenadiers 1/32nd - I have sold dozens of painted Wurttembergers to collectors who think that they are great figures. Understand he point made though - British Infantry verses French Cuirassiers at Waterloo is iconic. 9th
Hello all, I am going to make some assumptions here so if they don't apply to you please do not bite my head off. I have 3 well rounded 1/32 armies, French, Russian, and Austrian. At least 1000 figs per army. All three branches represented to a degree. Some are striaght out of the box being what they are sold as. Others are made to be other than what they were sold as, mostly by a creative paint job or some very minor conversions. Others are complete stand-ins, if conversions are to extensive or time consuming. I use all figures from 45mm to 60mm as that is what is available. They range from the Accurate American rev war (Wagram Saxons)to BMC Mexicans (Austrians). Having an army while I am still alive is more important than an empty spot on the shelf waiting for figures that may never appear. Now, assuming that some of you have 1/32 scale armies and assuming you wargame, I also assume that you fill gaps with other than Hat figures. In addition to Italeri, Armies In Plastic, and A Call TO Arms, I use Classic mexicans, Timpo Prussians and BMC awi. So what are you currently using?
28 comments:
Thats how I would do it. :)
Great idea.
Cheers,
Stan.
Great idea, this way one can get what they want out of a set.
Young Stan, when did u start collecting 1/32?
That's possibly do-able. What's the best cannon to make for an idea like this?
I'm happy to see this post.
The cannon in the example, would that also work for 7yr war? and I assume Nap France, Austria, Russia
Hi Hatblogger, the most universal calibre which featured prominently in all Napoleonic Armies was the 6-pdr. As Italeri has already saturated the market with French foot and horse artillery which featured the larger 12-pdr, and AIP has French and British, and ACTA has the familiar British 9-pdr, producing something new would be desirable for the uncatered for Prussian, Bavarian, Russian, and Austrian market. A 6-pdr like the Prussian M1768 (re: Stephen Summerfield), would fit into any continental field army of the Napoleonic period, and could pass for the Seven Years War too! 6-pdrs were by far the most common size employed by everybody.
May I send a welcome to Young Stan. He's a fellow Kiwi that lives in that quake-ravaged city Christchurch, which has been having a very rough patch in the last 12 months. He's certainly not new to 1/32 scale. Kia kaha Young Stan!
Stephen A.
Other possibility is to make a sprue with 2 barrels of different caliber, or as my example - extra barrel(s) with the figures.
My idea for the figures was 3 sprues of the same figures. That way, with 3 guns, one can make a battery of 3 guns, for diarama or wargames.
Hi
great idea - 1/32nd Napoleonic artillery is limited - the only decent sets ACTA British Field artillery and AIP French Old Guard
The rest is mediocre.
Now if hat made some artillery in 1/32nd scale then they would be first class of course.
9th
Or why not make different boxes :
light, medium and heavy artillery.
Dirk.
Great Idea! Huzzah!!!
Wayne W
H,
I have been gathering the figs for both sides, 1/32 DBA punic wars for some time.
With the Cart Vets as principe, I'm just about there :)
I have Italeri for early crusades, BMC for AWI, and CTA for ECW.
Cheers,
Stan.
hello
I hope to see the artillery quickly available in several national figures for the box and box to the guns seems to be a good solution can add extra hands over heads to ANSI conversions and increase the number of poses
cordially john
Unfortunately it is not at all a good idea. Artillery is much more complicated than infantry and cavalry. A generic cannon that will do it is not right, as for example Russian horse or foot artillery used 3 models (6pdr, 12pfr and unicorns), and the guns have nothing to do with the one pictured above. A box should contain 2 different sprues of figures (for example French a and b class gunners) and at least 2 different guns. Economy and artillery just do not go together.
If I have this right there would be 3 sprues of the same 4 figures or the same 3 cannons per box. Then you would make different sets of different figures and different cannons for other boxes.
How about making all the sprues at once and putting 3 different sprues in 1 box. There would just be a box with 3 different cannons and another box with 3 more different cannons and the same thing for crews.
One box of figures could have a crew sprue of french one sprue of austrian and a sprue of russians. The next box could be British foot and horse and spanish.
The important thing is to put out something. Start the line of 1/32 artillary now and expand on it later. You can't have your first set out be what everyone wants immediately.
If what you put out first dosen't complete my collection, then I will wait untill the next release.
Sscott
Why not just keep things simple 5 man crew plus a gun.
It seems to work for AIP...do a russian gun 1st which have never been done in plastic.
Then go on from there how hard is that!
Rob C,
Agree with Rob, there are too many permutations to keep everyone happy! Start simply with what you initially suggested - two calibres of gun (one with crew sprue), and differing nationalities of four crew with extra heads. Prussian, Russian, and Austrians could be a priority, as they haven't been been done before in plastic, and will be best sellers.
Has the issue of Austrian helmets versus shakos beeen finalised? I'll buy whatever you decide :)
Rob,
Hät's 54mm production line is 3 same sprues in a box.
figures + gun would give extra costs and much more boxes with the same number of sprues to be made.
My idea was to make it possible for Hät to think about artillery.
Scot : I think it is better to have a generic artillery then none.
As said, a licorne barrel could for instance be added to the Russian artillery figures.
So the question is would you support the idea or prefer nothing.
Dirk
I never said specific or none. What I said was "The important thing is to put something out" and later expand on the line. I have no problem with a generic gun as that is what we are mostly using now.
But if they want to do country specific guns and crews then put out one that is accurate first and follow up with an opponents gun and crew quickly.
As far as 3 same sprues in a box is the way Hat does things
1) Hat has never done artillary in 1/32 before.
2) why ask us about what we think if they aren't open to suggestions?
Sscott
I think i would pass on any generic guns...A Russian gun is just not the same as a french gun.
I know the infantry has 3x sprues but is that set in stone?
so hat could do 2 sprues one for the gun and one for the crews.I dont remember there punic war
Elephant and crew being on 3 sprues
Rob C
Hi Dirk
You can count on most of us supporting your idea :) Three of the same sprues per box - generic cannons in one, single nationality of three sprues in the other with an alternative cannon on sprue. I love it! Go for it and forget any dissent. Everyone needs continental Napoleonic cannons, particularly Prussian and Austrian. Put something into production, and we'll buy it. I'll, like many, will buy multiples :) I just admire the quality of your figures!!
Stephen A.
Sscott, Rob,
I exaggerated,sorry.. I indeed do not now what Hät will do.
My first intention was to get Hät's attention back to artillery and cavalry.
Must say I'm surprised to see your reaction of "perfectly accurate or nothing".
I think this is good enough to start a new post on accuracy
Stephen im not sure why you used the the word desent?
I have supported hats 1/32 products for many years Naps/ancients.
I will let the subject go at that!
Rob C,
Greetings.
Being an Historian and having collected, painted, converted and played with toys soldiers in excess of thirty years, I hope not to fall into the the trap of mediocrity and "just to get by" that I see being bashed back and forth here. I am not here to debate, argue or fuss & fight - I am here to post a carefully contemplated criticism, praise and suggestion(s)..
Based on the above I, for one, would prefer accurate, nation-specific guns and gunners. If you are happy with "generic" then go buy the generic guns from CTS and be done with it.
If I may speak even more directly: HAT has wasted precious time sculpting Wurttemburgers of various sorts as well as other minor nations that have comparatively limited market appeal and use (Wurt. Grenadiers!?). When, in fact, they could have given us French Line and Command as beautiful and in demand as their Legere! (This, so as not to leave people scrambling and wasting time and money on the likes of AIP with so many useless poses and bad under-cuts that render miniatures near useless and really offensive.). And for that matter French Guard Chasseur a Pied and Grenadier A Pied, or at least Middle Guard - none of which are anywhere readily available on the market but have great appeal.
Italeri has the most beautiful, detailed and animated plastic miniatures on the market! Though with a limited selection and mostly pre-1809/10. We are left with HAT – a company with which I am very glad to be “left with”! Italeri aside, HAT produces some of the most usefully-posed, accurate and best-looking figures on the market today! (Yes, even their lesser German states are exceptional!) :)
Back to the artillery; give us proper, correct, and accurate Russian artillery and gunners (this will compliment their fledgling Russian range); proper Austrians in their unique uniforms and bicorne/cocked hats with their unique guns! Give us good looking French figures with accurate artillery pieces! (And Prussians of course!) Any of these would do well Especially the AUSTRIAN set - One reason would be that the French pressed Austrian artillery into service due to its quality and construction.
To summarize: Boxes with 18 Gunners - very, VERY good idea! Separate boxes with 3 gun sprues each which contain a howitzer/licorne barrel and a 6lb barrel (For the heavier howitzers and 12lb barrel you'd want to have the larger carriages), Brits would have 9lbs in place of 12's, of course. So yes, a “heavy” and a “light” box of guns. By organizing thusly, you would have a broader market appeal and provide your customers a good, versatile, accurate, and useful product.
(I hate this idea BUT, to keep HAT from passing-out with the dizzying prospects of haing to have TWO To skirt the multi-size carriages in each nationality, you could produce the carriages in-between sizes for the 6's and 12's making them a bit small for 12's and a bit big for 6's! But from 3 feet away and aging eyesight...)
Finally one thing I would LOVE to see is a BOX of HEADS for conversion. They could be all one nation with 12-18 of each basic headgear type OR a mixed nationality box with, say, infantry in one and cavalry in another!
NB: Since many of you are wargamers, the above artillery packaging would/should appeal to you especially since many rules sets call for the number of guns to be represented by a gun model and a number of crewmen representing the actual gun number, For example: a Russian positional battery (aka Foot artillery) of 12 guns would have 3 gun models and 12 crewmen. Whereas an Austrian 12lb battery would have 1 or 2 gun models and 6 crewmen and a French foot battery would have 1 or 2 gun models and 8 crewmen, et cetera.
Thanks for reading and considering the above suggestions (including the heads!).
Dr. J, Ph.D.
Bravo Sah! I completeley agree with your comments. I like the head idea , maybe they could be included with some camp followers or higher command figures. cheers Martin
hey - whats wrong with Wurttemberg Grenadiers 1/32nd - I have sold dozens of painted Wurttembergers to collectors who think that they are great figures.
Understand he point made though - British Infantry verses French Cuirassiers at Waterloo is iconic.
9th
I dig the Barvarians.
And yeah what the Doc said near enough is close enough.
Hello all,
I am going to make some assumptions here so if they don't apply to you please do not bite my head off.
I have 3 well rounded 1/32 armies, French, Russian, and Austrian. At least 1000 figs per army. All three branches represented to a degree. Some are striaght out of the box being what they are sold as. Others are made to be other than what they were sold as, mostly by a creative paint job or some very minor conversions. Others are complete stand-ins, if conversions are to extensive or time consuming.
I use all figures from 45mm to 60mm as that is what is available. They range from the Accurate American rev war (Wagram Saxons)to BMC Mexicans (Austrians). Having an army while I am still alive is more important than an empty spot on the shelf waiting for figures that may never appear.
Now, assuming that some of you have 1/32 scale armies and assuming you wargame, I also assume that you fill gaps with other than Hat figures. In addition to Italeri, Armies In Plastic, and A Call TO Arms, I use Classic mexicans, Timpo Prussians and BMC awi.
So what are you currently using?
Sscot
Good idea !
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